TOPSPURS Jim Duggan's TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR site

Bernie Kingsley (these are his views and nothing to do with CADD or anything else) The important thing is not whether or not Spurs move away from the Lane, whether that be to Picketts Lock or anywhere else, or stay and expand, but that the whole issue is looked at in detail constructively and quickly and a detailed case is then put to fans - season-ticket holders and members - to vote on, in the way that Everton and Leeds have led the way.
We all think 36,000 is too small and if we are to really compete regularly at European level 50,000+ is essential. Much beyond that and with all seater stadiums you risk the horrors of the new St James' Park or Old Trafford, and anyone who's sat in the away section at the former or towards the back of the top tiers at OT will tell you it's no fun when you struggle to identify the players. WHL can be expanded to about 50,000, but that will involve several years of disruption and does not solve the transport issues - although as a fan since the sixties it never used to be such an issue when crowds of well over 50,000 were common. Moving to a Picketts Lock of 43,000 and a running track is a non-starter.
The location has potential, but other sites need to be examined - near Tottenham Hale, for example - and any new stadium must be designed for at least 50,000 football fans. The point is, the club could dither about it all for years and so could we.
There's no point spending £20 million on a new East Stand to take capacity at the Lane to 44,000 and then decide two years later to move. It's one or the other and that decision needs to be made in the next 12 months. So a working party, involving fans, does need to be set up urgently, and its findings, together with a proper outline of all the options, must be put to a ballot of fans. A simple "Do you want to move: Yes/No" is totally insufficient, it needs detailed info to make a decision. The question now is do THFC have the balls to do that? 

Daniel Wynne: (again this is his personal view and is not related to the Spurs supporters Trust) I am pretty much tied to White Hart Lane. It is our home and has many great memories for me and may other Spurs fans. I can see why it makes financial sense to move away from the Lane, but to my mind we should stay where we are and redevelop. It may be cheaper to move and start from scratch but home is where the heart is and that is White Hart Lane. The East Stand should be the first to be knocked down ,quickly followed by the West. There is so much space behind the West Stand, it has so much potential to build up and across. We could achieve a 55.000 - 60,000 home ground on the present site.

Sean Morley - legal expert and fellow block 27 resident:

1. TRADITION
Reasons for staying at WHL

In essence WHL is the heart and soul (no pun) of spurs and by moving to a soulless new stadium like southampton (amongst others) we will be at risk of betraying our heritage.

The glory years - the walk down tottenham high road-etc lets face it - it's our home.
Having said that the scum did win the first leg of their double at WHL since when it has probably been cursed.

Reasons for leaving WHL

In the glittering world of the new premiership there is no such thing as tradition unless it has a marketing value. The game has moved on and is now at the premiership level completely unrecognisable from the game of 20 or 30 years ago (before the giant that is spurs fell asleep)

WHL itself is a vastly different stadium to the one that I first visited in the 70's
We now play only a proportion of matches on the traditional Sat/Wed/Sat
The shirts are emblazoned with sponsors logos (arguably now traditionally 'Holsten')
There used to be a common bond between the players and the fans. Now even the the most mediocre premiership player earns a fortune in comparison to the working man paying to watch them. Good luck to those fortunate to do so but it hardly results in a sense of realism amongst the current 'stars' :- witness Rsol and his buddy Carr who it appears is itching to emulate him.

As a concept tradition is as dead as a dodo.

As far as WHL is concerned ENIC have already raised the idea of selling the name- so much for tradition there.
We support the football club not the stadium - does it really matter where we play?

2. GROUND CAPACITY/DEMAND
Reasons for staying at WHL
The ground can be expanded to meet spurs' immediate needs - the club have planning permission to expand to 44000.

One word of warning is that whilst we sell out the majority of the games now by expanding the stadium how many extra spurs fans are there who would be able to stump up the cash and turn up week in - week out.

We have traditionally been one of the more expensive teams to support.
At the moment the premiership remains the trendy and fashionable pastime.Football is the dominant sport in this country and with Murdoch's millions at stake Sky will want this to continue. Nevertheless in the 80's when spurs were comfortably part of the BIg 5 and had a capacity of 48000 we only sold out on rare occasions. During the recession in the 80's it was rare to get crowds over 26000.

Apparently we are entering a recession at the moment- how many fans will be able to comfortably renew their season ticket or be encouraged to buy one?

A new superstadium with a massive capacity will not result in a ticket  price reduction (unless i am being cynical). If ENIC's performance to date is anything to go by whatever plans are made will result in massive price increases to 'pay' for them.

The big games will always sell out, however I imagine that the new superstadium will have a great atmosphere if it is half full for the visit of bolton/southampton/ipswich etc

Reasons for leaving WHL
With the average attendance at 35000+ it is clear that the ground needs to be bigger to accomodate the demand.
WHL has one of the smaller capacities and with the current interest in football it is clear that there are people not able to get tickets for most matches. Having said that it is not clear how many more fans there are out there.

Whilst WHL can be expanded this is likely to result in the views available at St James' or Old Trafford.- bring your opera glasses to the match son.

Whilst there may be room to expand the west stand i do not believe that the proposed east stand expansion will be feasible in the space provided. Then again so what if you have a crap view on top of the luxury executive boxes?

Surely it would be better to move to a purpose built properly designed stadium to cater for 60000+ supporters to meet the needs for spurs and the plc- a stadium which can be used during non-match days to earn money (like everton plan to do) and which can serve spurs if and when they get it right on the pitch.

Imagine a stadium with good access, good facilities and with good views.(eg like cardiff but with a transport system)
When the european superleague emerges out of the champions league we should have least have the facilities to be in it.

In general whether we move or not depends on ENIC'S plans for spurs. If we are simply to remain a premiership team with the annual hope of a cup run and the occasional foray into europe i suspect we will stay at WHL and receive the usual platitudes from the board (whoever they are at the time)

If we are serious about competing with the best and attracting the best players then we have to be able to compete financially and have the proper infrastructure in support. At this stage i do not advocate that we move to picketts lock as the plans appear incomplete and the prospect of an athletics stadium with a capacity of 50000 does not necessarily fit our requirements.

Is it only a coincidence that Man Utd traditionally have had the largest capacity in england, have more people capable of watching a match and therefore (so they say) have the biggest fanbase.?

Then again i could be wrong- ask Queen of the South

Jim Mariner - Whilst I, like thousands of the rest of you yiddos, cant bear to think about leaving the lane I feel we have to look at the option of moving The fact is we sell out 95% of our home matches and the proposed 7000 extra seats would be a good way of generating extra revenue. If this could be done at WHL I would be glad, but I dont see how we can expand an already cramped stadium, although your point about the posts having to go I support, having had the misfortune to sit behind them in the Liverpool game last November. Having only begun to have SERIOUSLY started supporting spurs in the summer of 93, I am unclear of exactly what happened about the Paxton Road stand, the 'debacle'. What exactly happened?

Andy Godfrey: I am a member & will continue to be so, which I would like to think gets me a hearing as to the future of the home of THFC. This is a matter that words cannot express how strongly I feel.
I can't imagine ever playing at another venue,the club would be losing its soul.(No pun intended!) It maybe for the likes of Derby,Boro' & the Arse but not for us.You cannot re-locate the years of history soaked into the walls of WHL to some sterile athletics stadium with,God forbid,a running track between the pitch &  supporters.!And all for the sake of  a few extra fans.Re-develop WHL,starting with the East stand,with NO extra executive boxes,then address the West stand (planning permission permitting of course).This will get us to the magic 50,000 mark with ease.Obviously the transport situation will have to be looked at to cater for the extended capacity,but bigger problems have been overcome.
Say no to Picketts Lock & yes to a  bigger & even better WHL

Frank Hughes: Picketts Lock doesn't impress me - but then neither does the prospect of expanding WHL in an area where the transport infrasrtucture is inadequate, and the street parking is akin to Beirut. The prospect of leaving such history is sad, but other clubs have done it where necessary and it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand !   PS I know you'd miss the walk down the road Jim !

Steph: If the intentions are right , ie for the good of Spurs, maybe we should listen! I would not like to see Spurs stay at the lane if it meant stunting our growth and handicapping us. I am aware WHL is extendable but is parking, safety, facilities. Lets not stay at WHL for traditions sake. Lets stat at WHL only if it is for the good (finance and mostly success on the grass) of Spurs. Maybe the Spurs trust can elect a committee with an open mind to weigh up the adv/disadv of move or stay.  

Imagine how frustrated ENIC and most club owners must be , owning a property the size of WHL and other stadiums and only seeing it used for in theory 90-180 minutes a week, 40 odd weeks of the year. They must therefore concentrate on fully maximising that 90-180 mins as opposed to try to market the vacant times.  With this in mind I think a bigger than needed stadium could be built, possibly the biggest and best in the country. As any new biggest building, the fact it is the biggest is a great marketing tool. If we had the biggest best stadium in the UK (which is deserving of London) it would, increase Spurs awareness, attract players, show massive ambition, increase revenue. Overall the fact it was biggest and best a brilliant marketing tool. If we´re gonna do it lets do it with true Spurs style and flair

Colin Rowland: Firstly about Picketts Lock. At some point if we are to progress we will have to move. I was born in Tottenham and have very found memories of walking to the lane with my dad hand in hand. Although I no longer live there,I do the same with my son now via a train journey and of course feel very attached to the place.
It will be difficult to leave a place that that so many people have an attachment to. However if we are to move forward it must be done at some point. White Hart Lane will not facilitate the needs of the future if we are to truly re capture the ultimate glory. The travel facilities are appalling & it sounds like we may not get above 45,000 after potential east stand developments.
HOWEVER, I have to agree Picketts Lock is not the right option. Football needs football stadiums, not converted athletics stadiums. We want to be close to the action. To hear the players, to smell the ralgex !! to give them the feeling the crowd are with them. This will never be done whilst 8 lanes of muck stand between us.

Rob Ascroft: I can't think of anything worse than sitting around the outside of a fucking athletics track. I've never experienced it but it must have a negative effect on the atmosphere. Even though I've only been going for a couple of years I just can't get enough of the Lane and think it would be a sad day indeed if we had to leave. Not much more needed on the subject, I feel, and let's hope we never have to go there.

Damon Carter: Whilst I too have many fond memories of some fantastic times at the Lane, I would be open minded regarding the idea of a new home but only if it is in the interest of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club getting back up where they belong. The only things I would be adamant about is that the move is not too far from the present location (I don't think Pickets Lock is too far) and for there to be no track around the pitch as this gives up a lot of the benefits of home advantage + makes for poor viewing (from what I've read sounds like the option at Pickets Lock would mean a track around the pitch).

Andrew Wynn: I can't see the attraction of the Picketts Lock move. No way should supporters have to suffer the indignity of having a running track between them and the action. The side stands wouldn't be too bad, but the ends behind both goals would be akin to watching a small telly. If the capacity was going to be 60,000+ then I could see the sense in the move. It's true that WHL is not sufficient at the moment  (mainly due to the terraces being removed - my Dad used to go when there were 60,000 every week and the ground was smaller then!) but Picketts Lock is not the answer. Either redevelop WHL (start by reclaiming the shelf for the fans!) or knock it down, flog it off and build a new stadium from scratch.

Adrian Fowkes: one thing that i can not believe is the amount of time it takes spurs to do anything-eg:(transfers are a long whinded joke!),but so are the plans for whl.   first sugar & now buchler have repeatedly told us "we have applied for planning permission"....HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE?..we need 50,000 at whl & we need it asap.  if we cant then lets think about mooving..but pickets lock? a running track, no cockrel on top of the stands, no welome to whl world famous home of the spurs?....NO THANKS!

Jerry Smith: The thought of moving from WHL to a poxy athletics stadium that by all accounts will only seat 43,000 is absolutely unthinkable.  If ever (Hod forbid) the decision is made to quit the Lane, then it should only be for a purpose built stadium with a seating capacity that matches or betters that of the nomads' proposed new shit-hole at Ashburton Grove (the figure I heard was 68,000).  We HAVE to be seen to match their ambition on and off the park, or we will be left too far behind them to ever make up the ground we've lost in the last decade.

Want your view heard - Mail me with your views no2pickettslock@topspurs.com